we've seen this evolution and clearly, hillary clinton as secretary clinton was forward-leaning as far as spousal benefits, partner benefits at the state department. but this is is a clear an obvious step. what she signaling? >> i think what she's signaling is what we've, the other folks that you've mentioned, is that support for gay marriage is now, pardon the phrase, going to be a litmus test in the democratic party. i'm almost thinking about how secretary clinton, when she was candidate clinton, had to explain why she voted for the war and express her views on the war. candidates are now going to be explaining why they weren't for gay marriage earlier and who would have ever, i'm not criticizing her. i think it's a terrific development. but whoever would have thought that she would have been preempted on this, by rob portman? times have changed. >> times have changed indeed. and rapidly. and this was her endorsement was delivered via the human rights campaign headed by chad griffin. formerly an arkansasen and someone? the press office in the clinton white house years, we knew him in